This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Kumanovo article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bulgaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bulgaria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BulgariaWikipedia:WikiProject BulgariaTemplate:WikiProject BulgariaBulgaria
This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Macedonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of North Macedonia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.North MacedoniaWikipedia:WikiProject North MacedoniaTemplate:WikiProject North MacedoniaNorth Macedonia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country
What I don't understand is persistent removal of Ratkovic, source from the infobox and replacing them with sources from 1912. Other problem is not so much of presentation of Albanian casualties, but WP:undue and omitting in presentation of other casualties, including Serbs, Turks etc. I suggest a more balanced approach. Theonewithreason (talk) 23:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see your concerns. I don't recall my changes removing Ratkovic, but maybe I just didn't realize, but I apologize. My edits were meant to add the mention of a rather large violent campaign against Albanians in which Kumanovo was involved during the time of the conflict, which I believe is an important element which isn't covered at all in this article. I believe the changes I made were relatively well sourced, adding a contemporary estimate of 3,000 casualties which is generally mentioned by historians who cover war crimes during this period. Could you be a bit more specific with the concerns of my additions? Thanks, Yung Doohickey (talk) 23:26, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your last edit was improvement from the previous ones, although the edit ...Throughout the Balkan Wars, the Kingdom of Serbia had implemented a policy of extermination against Albanians, which was reported on by contemporary western media... presented through Albanian history net is not reliable source, also this is the article about battle of Kumanovo, so the sources should stick with the topic, meaning what happened during the battle, I am pretty sure that main goal of the Serbian army in this battle was not extermination of Albanian population, but to deal with Ottoman army, this gives false balance. Also the file or the picture you are presenting is a newspaper header, not a reliable source, which doesn't have so much with the battle itself but with situation during the whole Balkan war. Theonewithreason (talk) 23:34, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean, but albanianhistory.net is, as far as I'm aware, Robert Elsie's website and it's mostly if not all Elsie's work. Even though this wasn't exactly directly related to Kumanovo, it briefly contextualized the war crimes as part of a larger campaign. Whether or not the Kingdom of Serbia itself was truly actively trying to exterminate the Albanians isn't for us to decide, it seems to be a relatively popular characterization. If it'd help, we could rewrite it to Throughout the Balkan Wars, the Kingdom of Serbia had implemented what has been described by Robert Elsie and other scholars as a policy of extermination against Albanians, which was reported on by contemporary western media. Otherwise, we could remove Elsie's characterization, even though he's a credible scholar on the subject matter. Yung Doohickey (talk) 23:44, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would remove that sentence from this article since it more represents a whole Balkan war campaign. ...According to Arben Qirezi, Peter I of Serbia had ordered the execution of Albanian civilians living in Kumanovo. Subsequently, after the battle, the Serbian forces had massacred an estimated 3,000 Albanians between Kumanovo and Uskub based on contemporary accounts... should be enough which explains what happened with Albanians in Kumanovo after the battle. Theonewithreason (talk) 23:50, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly provide the page number for your references. Additionally, a full quote is necessary to verify the claim—please include it here on the TP. Otherwise, the revised section is no good. Thank you. — Sadko(words are wind)01:53, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added the full quotes for both sources to where contemporary accounts were referenced, but I could only find a page number for Elsie and Destani's book. Yung Doohickey (talk) 02:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
.svg)
