User talk:Lardlegwarmers

Lardlegwarmers (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction to contentious topics

You have recently edited a page related to COVID-19, broadly construed, a topic designated as contentious. This is a brief introduction to contentious topics and does not imply that there are any issues with your editing.

A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as contentious topics. These are specially designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Wikipedia administrators have an expanded level of powers and discretion in order to reduce disruption to the project.

Within contentious topics, editors should edit carefully and constructively, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and:

adhere to the purposes of Wikipedia;
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Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics procedures, you may ask them at the arbitration clerks' noticeboard or you may learn more about this contentious topic here. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{Ctopics/aware}} template.

You have recently made edits related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people. This is a standard message to inform you that post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics.

You have recently made edits related to pseudoscience and fringe science. This is a standard message to inform you that pseudoscience and fringe science is a designated contentious topic. This message does not imply that there are any issues with your editing. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics. Alpha3031 (talk) 08:24, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Alpha3031. Unfortunately, I have found several ongoing instances of these norms being ignored and a lack of enforcement when the behavior is used to assert or maintain the so-called "Neutral" point of view.Lardlegwarmers (talk) 19:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to raise any such behaviour at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. There are instructions on the page, just read the red box. Alpha3031 (t • c) 20:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement's red box provides: If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. I would rather not expose myself personally to extra scrutiny simply for pointing out obvious instances of chronic incivility on the part of one editor in particular. At first blush, it seems like this person has been getting away with frequent ad hominem arguments in virtue of the fact that he targets pro-fringe editors, who by their very nature would be vulnerable to the possibility of being sanctioned for their own behavior, since apparently two wrongs make a right. But that nobody else, just your regular run-of-the-mill editors on the page, has brought this up at all is a bit surprising. Lardlegwarmers (talk) 08:55, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Editors getting banned for being a "dick", editing Covid-19 articles

Hello, Lardlegwarmers,

I'm not sure what message you are trying to send by linking to this user essay on your User page. You aren't being a "dick" and no one is trying to ban you.

I see that you have already found your way to the Teahouse so you know you can always bring your questions about editing on this project to that forum. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:02, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any statistics on the number of accounts that have been banned or suspended for taking part in the [[COVID-19 lab leak theory]] 85.206.30.170 (talk) 05:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they ban editors just for having an obvious POV on controversial topics that diverges from the consensus (AKA Wikipedia:PROFRINGE). I read an interesting essay on this on the user page of Cullen328. It seems that the editors leave the site on their own when they realize that Wikipedia policies are not very conducive to promoting the "fringe" point of view. It's set up so that basically if your POV diverges from what's endorsed in a survey study in Science journal, then Wikipedia considers you to be "pro fringe", and no matter how many times you protest, it's like shouting into the void. The bans only come if you start getting angry and being an outright giant dick. I'm new to editing Wikipedia, so I don't really know if they actually ban people for continuing to argue against the consensus after it's been consented to by the group, although the policies do say that you're supposed to be willing to surrender to consensus, for the good of Wikipedia as a whole. Lardlegwarmers (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you like to read essays in this area, then I recommend Wikipedia:Tendentious editing, and if you want to read the relevant behavioral guideline, then Wikipedia: Disruptive editing is it. Cullen328 (talk) 04:29, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you plan on returning to the Covid lab leak talk page? Please explain your choice. 85.206.30.170 (talk) 06:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I accept that the consensus of editors is that lab leak is fringe. So be it. I will sit back and watch people come in who want to change the POV throw themselves against that brick wall. But there is more work to be done. The Origin of SARS-CoV-2 relies excessively on primary sources and the editors there seem to be willfully ignoring it, while they vigilantly maintain their consensus against primary sources in the lab leak article. I do not have extended confirmed status, so somebody else should actually make the necessary edits. Lardlegwarmers (talk) 17:02, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I estimate three topic bans and one indef block within the past year, all editors who were politely trying to bring the page towards NPOV. - Palpable (talk) 22:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide examples of this? Lardlegwarmers (talk) 16:59, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The indef was User:Sennalen, you can see some of the lead in on her talk page. Unfortunately Wikipedia doesn't maintain links to noticeboards but you can track down the AE case from there. The main thing you need to worry about is that while people bringing cases need to document extensively, there is no due process for a BOOMERANG.

Sounds like I can't help you much more, as I don't have time to fight off attacks from FTN. - Palpable (talk) 17:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A thing I read that you may find useful

Hey! I was reading some wikipedia essays and found something that reminded me of your comment on the teahouse. I will quote the relevant section:

When Wikipedians spend too much time on the noticeboards, in Arbcom cases, and on talk pages of contentious articles, they have a high probability of concluding that Wikipedia is dysfunctional, incompetent, and doomed to fail. Once a Wikipedian has reached this realization, expect that person's user page to boast an essay announcing the imminent failure of the project. The best cure for this condition is to leave those places, and instead read a few articles on genuinely encyclopedic topics, noticing just how good they actually are. Similarly, if you were to look at a table at a subatomic level, you would see that it consists mainly of empty space, with innumerable minuscule particles whizzing about angrily, each having an arbitrary and undefinable position; indeed, if you look at them too closely, they will change just to spite you: but back away, the whole becomes visibly a table again. We're a pretty good encyclopedia, and you will notice it once you back away from the conflict zones.

Cmrc23 ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 12:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that Wikipedia is falling short of it's fundraising target this year. What happens when no one trusts Wikipedia? Will they stop funding it? 95.214.66.65 (talk) 08:51, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would personally say that the Wikimedia foundation has a spending problem. The donation banners always talk of urgency because that language works. If the project was ever actually in danger of shutting down due to lack of funding, I think a lot of people (including myself!) would donate. Cmrc23 ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 08:58, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your thread has been archived

Hello Lardlegwarmers! The thread you created at the Teahouse, Covid-19 drama, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

You can still read the archived discussion. If you have follow-up questions, please create a new thread.

See also the help page about the archival process. The archival was done by lowercase sigmabot III, and this notification was delivered by KiranBOT, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=KiranBOT}} on top of the current page (your user talk page). —KiranBOT (talk) 03:33, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No LLMs

I suggest you delete the LLM-generated comment before someone replies to it and you're stuck with it. - Palpable (talk) 19:12, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]