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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

POV edits with Name of the Church

Lot of POV edits happening with the name of this church and title of this article as well. Actual name of this Church is Jacobite Syrian Christian Church - legally,officially and by all means.Please verify references provided below:

I am keeping the official name of the church in preface in first place.

@User:Kokkarani aka Phantom, Please do not push this name to 20 lines below in the article as you did yesterday. Actual name of the church should come first and clearly appear in the article.

@Wiki Admins, Please do not allow any editors to take out this name from this place. Also please revert back the title of the article to Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. In my opinion, Wiki Editors or Wiki Admins are not supposed change the name of a church, an institution or an organization. This will take out the credibility of Wikipedia. Thanks -45.126.206.4 (talk) 13:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I have reverted. Generally the first sentence needs to match the article title. Other variants can come after.--Cúchullain t/c 14:11, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Agreed, We will discuss this in Title move discussion (above section)- 45.125.146.72 (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Restoring the actual name of this Church (Jacobite Syrian Christian Church) in the article which was lost on a mass clean-up -122.179.55.191 (talk) 12:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Jacobite Syrian Church is Malankara Syrian Church

After the Coonan cross oath the church divided into two, one is under Catholic Church other is under Syriac orthodox church. The first Bishop of Malankara syrian church is Mar Thoma I by Gregorios Abdal Jaleel and to be last Malankara Bishop consecrated by Syriac orthodox Church. Some of Bishops seperated from Syrian orthodox church in India, establish two different churches is also known as Marthoma Syrian Church and Malankara Orthodox Church. After the establish of Catholicos of the East by Ex-Patriach Ignatius Abded Mshiho II, The Malankara Orthodox Church accept the new throne of thomas apostle and disagreed Shalmusa[1] of Syriac orthodox church and to be independent, The one and only church that is Jacobite syrian church under the throne of Syriac orthodox church and follow old tradition. Robyrajan916 (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/MGregoriusGChathuruthil/18761216shalmootho.html

Language in coat of arms?

What are the two languages which are seen in the emblem? The one on the right can be confused between Urdu, Arabic and Persian.

On reading the article one may guess it to be Persian, but could someone please confirm it, and explain why these two languages were specifically chosen? Yetanotherwriter (talk) 07:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Its Syriac Robyrajan916 (talk) 11:47, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Users like Roshyf2 & Iravikorthanan are continuously making impulse moves and changes in the article with out any proper reference. Also they edit Wikipedia in a way to confuse readers that Marthoma church is the true successor church of the Malankara church forgetting the facts in references which says Marthoma church got separated from Malankara church in 1889 with results of Anglican reformation. Also argues with unnecessary claims like Marthoma Church is another Malankara Church. Here I want to make it clear that Malankara Church is an Oriental Orthodox Church , however Marthoma church is an Anglican Reformed church got legally separated from Malankara church in 1889 with the Travancore Royal Court verdict which declared that the Reformist faction in the Malankara church has NO rights spiritually or temporally in the existing Malankara Church. The Reformists organised as a new independent church called Reformed Syrian church. After the death of Thomas Mar Athanasius, they adopted a new name for the church called Marthoma Syrian Church of Malabar. They cannot claim any spiritual or temporal lineage of the Malankara Church. Iravikorthanan and Roshyf2 knowingly or unknowingly want to hide this fact and want to project that Marthoma church is another Malankara church to confuse wiki readers. User:Kokkarani Phantom (talk) 07:25, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Why Coptic church is not Jacobite?

Jacob Baradaeus ordained patriarch for Coptic Orthodox church also,why don't call as jacobite whenever how malankara orthodox church became Jacobite? traditionally after catholicate by deposed patriarch, the malankara orthodox church under throne of saint thomas apostle not Antioch. The Jacobite Syrian Church continue the throne of Antioch.The Jacob Baradaeus strengthened various parts of Antioch Church, who believe Miaphysitism. The other churches like Coptic Church known as their thrones so Malankara orthodox not jacobite.Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Two Different Churches

They are two different churches in Kerala, both being part of Oriental Orthodoxy but this one being autonomous and the other being autocephalous. ܠܝܛܘ Liju ലിജു לג"ו (talk) 04:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Both are Syriac Orthodox Church in India(Malankara) Phantom (talk) 17:47, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Jacobite Syrian church is a integral branch of Syriac orthodox church also known as Syriac orthodox church of India. Malankara orthodox church is a independent church when they accept saint Thomas apostle is founder of church but Jacobite Syrian church believe as per tradition of Syriac orthodox church. Now, The Malankara orthodox church doesn't accept the lineage of Patriach of Syrian orthodox because As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian follow continue as under the Patriach of Antioch, They are called Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Church) Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:56, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Confusion...

This article says that the Jacobite Syrian Christian Church is also known as "Malankara Syrian Orthodox Church". There is also an article called Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, which is also in Kerala. This is very confusing, and there should be something in the article that explains that they are different (if they are different — otherwise the articles would be merged). ... discospinster talk 00:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Jacobite Syrian church is a integral branch of Syriac orthodox church also known as Syriac orthodox church of India. Malankara orthodox church is a independent church when they accept saint Thomas apostle is founder of church but Jacobite Syrian church believe as per tradition of Syriac orthodox church. Now, The Malankara orthodox church doesn't accept the lineage of Patriach of Syrian orthodox because As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian follow continue as under the Patriach of Antioch, They are called Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Church Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:57, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Jacobite Syrian church is a integral branch of Syriac orthodox church also known as Syriac orthodox church of India. Malankara orthodox church is a independent church when they accept saint Thomas apostle is founder of church but Jacobite Syrian church believe as per tradition of Syriac orthodox church. Now, The Malankara orthodox church doesn't accept the lineage of Patriach of Syrian orthodox because As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian follow continue as under the Patriach of Antioch, They are called Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Church Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:03, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Present situation of the Church

The Patriarch fraction is known as Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, and the Catholicos fraction as Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. An Independent Orthodox Church body also exists since 1772 AD by name, Malabar Independent Syrian Church, which is not in communion either with the Patriarch or Catholicos.

Majority of the Orthodox christians in India,including me, accept the Patriarch of Antioch as the Spiritual leader, and Catholicos of East as the autocephelous head. Similar to the situation in Georgia, where Georgians accept the Catholicos of Georgia as their autocephelous head and Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople as the Spiritual head.

How does the above affect this article? We need WP:RELY references to document all statements, particularly controversial ones. "Fighting in the streets" appears to be documentable. Does either side support violence? Again, need references. The split in loyalty I think is already documented. But if it isn't, it should be. Student7 (talk) 13:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The Malankara orthodox church have autocephelous head. The Jacobite syrian christian church are branch of syriac orthodox church. As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church, they don't have patriarch or any relation between syriac orthodox church because of constitution says "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian have only relation between syriac orthodox church and Jacobite syrian church together and continue under the throne of Antioch. Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:17, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

So who is Jacob?

It would be nice if a link could be provided somewhere in the article, or even in the intro, to this church's namesake. Rwflammang (talk) 19:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

If you watch the Mass Ceremony, Israel is Jacob at the conclusion of the sermon.
Another good question would be, is Jacobite communion wine or grape juice? 67.161.249.235 (talk) 07:18, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


ST. YACOUB BURD'ONO

http://jacobitesyrianchurch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=67 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nibumjohn (talk • contribs) 09:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

read this article on wikipedia Jacob Baradaeus Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:22, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Early History of Saint Thomas Christians

The remark " Historically, the Saint Thomas Christians were united in leadership and liturgy, and were part of the Syriac Orthodox Church" is NOT correct. They were in communion withChurch of the East from 496 to 1599 and not part of any foreign churches till the Portuguese arriving in Malabar. - 122.179.55.191 (talk) 12:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

The Malankara Syrian church or syriac orthodox church of malankara known as after arrival of Jerusalem Bishop of syriac orthodox church Gregorios Abdal Jaleel Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:48, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Removing the merging suggestion

Seeing a merging suggestion template proposing Malankara Church article to be merged into this article. But could not find any reasoning in talk pages why the merging required. Malankara Church or Malankara Syrian Church is now an umbrella name which includes many churches. There had been splits happened in Malankara Church and today many churches like Malankara Orthodox, Jacobite Syrian, Marthoma and Malankara Catholic church share the lineage of Malankara Church. In this case, not sure on what basis some user made this merge proposal. Hence removing the invalid merging proposal. Next time some one adding this kind of merge template , please clearly mention in talk page for the reasons for merge suggestion. Thanks - 122.167.225.188 (talk) 00:49, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Speedly merge Malankara Church into Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church

The catholicate of Malankara orthodox church established by deposed patriarch of Ignatius Abded Mshiho II[1]. Now, Syriac orthodox church or malankara orthodox church does not have any other contact with together as well as constitution aricle says "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox).[2]and rejected the shalmootho of Syriac orthodox church[3]. As per constitution of malankara orthodox church Article 101 is Absent, whenever Article 1 have no value. The Jacobite syrian church only continue as the branch of Syriac orthodox church then immediately merge Malankara syrian church into Jacobite syrian christian church. Robyrajan916 (talk) 13:38, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Suppose I suppose this statement ! Malankara orthodox church is not any part of Syriac orthodox church. Malankara orthodox church Believers destroy syriac orthodox (Jacobites) Emblem on varikoli jacobite syrian church.[4] eldhose 13:32, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.morgabriel.org/dictionary_patriarch.html
  2. ^ http://mosc.in/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/MOSC-Constitution.pdf
  3. ^ http://sor.cua.edu/Personage/MGregoriusGChathuruthil/18761216shalmootho.html
  4. ^ https://www.facebook.com/KefaOnline/videos/1932342073693803/

Proposed merge of Malankara Church in Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church

Jacobite Syrian church is a integral branch of Syriac orthodox church also known as Syriac orthodox church of India. Malankara orthodox church is a independent church when they accept saint Thomas apostle is founder of church but Jacobite Syrian church believe as per tradition of Syriac orthodox church. Now, The Malankara orthodox church doesn't accept the lineage of Patriach of Syrian orthodox because As per constitution of Malankara orthodox church "The Malankara orthodox church shall not recognize the Patriach, canonically consecrated with the co-operation of catholicos"(Constitution of Malankara orthodox). The Jacobite Syrian Christian follow continue as under the Patriach of Antioch, They are called Malankara Syrian Church(Jacobite Syrian Church). Robyrajan916 (talk) 12:38, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Suppose I suppose this statement ! Malankara orthodox church is not any part of Syriac orthodox church. Malankara orthodox church Believers destroy syriac orthodox (Jacobites) Emblem on varikoli jacobite syrian church.[1] eldhose 13:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Two different entities. PPEMES (talk) 14:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 24 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved; most editors cite evidence of usage of current title over logic of proposed title. (non-admin closure) Dicklyon (talk) 03:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)


– Per WP:CONSISTENCY with Syriac Christianity, Terms for Syriac Christians, Syriac rite, Syriac Orthodox Church, Syriac Catholic Church, etc., as well as per WP:PRECISION to distinguish from national identity Syrian of Syria. PPEMES (talk) 14:36, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

  • Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church (Jacobite Syrian Christian Church)
  • Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
  • Malabar Independent Syrian Church (The Thozhiyur Church)
  • Mar Thoma Syrian Church (Malankara)
  • Chaldean Syrian Church
As you can see: no Syriac, all Syrian. The only exception is Malankara Syriac Orthodox Church, which at WP is a redirect to Jacobite Syrian Christian Church. We have simply reversed the order preferred by GEDSH. Srnec (talk) 23:04, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Except it doesn't, for anyone initiated in this topic. Please see Syrian, and Syriac. PPEMES (talk) 23:57, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Jacobite Orthodox Church" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Jacobite Orthodox Church. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:27, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Removal of Members field data from Infobox

Not sure some users are repeatedly removing the population from infobox which is added with references. Please discuss here before removing/editing this filed - 122.182.247.136 (talk) 04:10, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Because the references are invalid. Adherents.com does not conform to the standards of WP:RS, and the CNEWA site does not list a number for "Jacobite" anything, separately from the Malankara Orthodox. Elizium23 (talk) 04:25, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response. But please go through the CNEWA site , its mentioned that " However, in 1912 there was a split in the community when one part declared itself an autocephalous church and announced the re-establishment of the ancient Catholicosate of the East in India. This was not accepted by those who remained loyal to the Syrian Patriarch. ...... The precise size of these two communities is difficult to determine. But the autocephalous Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church has reported 2,500,000 members in 30 dioceses, served by 32 bishops and over 1,700 priests. The group under the supervision of the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate [Syrian Orthodox Church] had about 1,200,000 faithful." The group under the supervision of the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate is Jacobite Syrian Church ---122.182.247.136 (talk) 04:36, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Sock puppetry

Unfortunately, this article (and others in the Malankara Church and Syro-Malabar Catholic Church have been the target of sock puppetry as well as meat puppetry and we will be seeking page protection in the long term against vandalism and POV-pushing editing. Thanks for your cooperation. Elizium23 (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

  1. ^ https://www.facebook.com/KefaOnline/videos/1932342073693803/
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